|
Post by BurnOut on Dec 24, 2010 9:58:53 GMT 2
Sooo....I think this is the first thread ever in speedsims about a console game.
Anyway, I just couldnt resist it and got myself a ps3 for GT5. Its a washed down semi-sim, but the plethora of real cars and tracks makes it very fun to play!
So, anyone else got it? I still havent played it online and there are heaps of interesting cars out there ;D
|
|
triz
Administrator
McLaren Fan
Posts: 500
|
Post by triz on Dec 24, 2010 10:26:17 GMT 2
Well i wouldnt buy a ps3 for a game... To bad its not for PC cause i would have liked to have spin with it. Tried Grid, Grid 2 and F1 2010... In those they forgot the physics engine i think so far I'm stuckup with rFactor, NHEat and such anyone have any real other sims I could try? cheers, Triz
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2011 2:51:51 GMT 2
rFactor= bag of crap (had it)
F1 2010 is very good IMO, i have it for the xbox and the pc. Have an issue saving it on the PC though but i can play it. (purchased)
LFS's physics are good for close racing (suspension damage levels and aerodynamic damage is nothing)
and Nheat... the game with all the cars and tracks, great community, most realistic feeling physics (tire wear and such).
I wouldnt buy a PS3 JUST for GT5, might as well get iracing for that price. I have forza 3 for Xbox, not really impressed TBH but a good selection of stuff and career mode is fun.
|
|
|
Post by Cholerix on Jan 5, 2011 10:04:56 GMT 2
According to user feedback, netKar Pro seems to be really good sim, with the focus of being a simulation. Only problem is there's only few interesting cars and tracks
|
|
triz
Administrator
McLaren Fan
Posts: 500
|
Post by triz on Jan 5, 2011 10:17:30 GMT 2
rFactor= bag of crap (had it) F1 2010 is very good IMO, i have it for the xbox and the pc. Have an issue saving it on the PC though but i can play it. (purchased) LFS's physics are good for close racing (suspension damage levels and aerodynamic damage is nothing) and Nheat... the game with all the cars and tracks, great community, most realistic feeling physics (tire wear and such). I wouldnt buy a PS3 JUST for GT5, might as well get iracing for that price. I have forza 3 for Xbox, not really impressed TBH but a good selection of stuff and career mode is fun. And why is rFactor a bag of crap? The physics engine is quite good. Cars repsond mostly as they should. I would say F1 2010 is just pretty pictures with dynamic weather. oh and you can visually break your car too. It has unpredictable steering to my wheel input. In other words, the car descides when exactly to steer in to the corner... Thats arcade, not sim. There are older F1 sims with better physics then that. Anyhow, i guess i'll give Netcar a go perhaps. cheers, Triz
|
|
|
Post by Cholerix on Jan 5, 2011 11:23:29 GMT 2
[ And why is rFactor a bag of crap? The physics engine is quite good. Cars repsond mostly as they should. I wouldn't call rF a crap of bag at all, esp since there's a too wide variety of mods/physics to have a general judgement. Some rF mods are plain crap, others are top notch. Which what every popular modding platform ends up with But for some reason I couldn't lay my finger on rF physics generally doesn't feel right to me.
|
|
|
Post by Mustangman on Jan 5, 2011 14:06:01 GMT 2
Need for Speed Hot Pursuit is the best IMO and thats just the trailer ;D
|
|
|
Post by oldnslow on Jan 5, 2011 14:16:52 GMT 2
rFactor is not a piece of crap but there is a problem in the feel that is shared by LFS, GTR etc. when you turn the steering wheel you change the angle of the steered wheels and this starts the tire interacting with the pavement which generates a force to turn the car and that force produced requires energy which 1. slows the car by converting velocity into drag, 2. a centering force in the steering because the tires wants to straighten themselves. I believe isi physics took a shortcut and instead of generating these forces in the tire model they went directly and much more simply computing wise to the rotation of the car to generate the drag. this causes a more linear and instaneous drag when turning and also the drag stays until the car is completely straightened. with a "tire" model of this effect it is less linear, and the driver can try to find that sweet spot where cornering is maxed and drag is minimized by feel. Don't expect that in arcade games and in my opinion is the biggest weakness in the isi engine. i think heat handles this better and in the tire model. of course they physics designers all have to make simplification just because the interactions are very complex in real time and constantly changing. Perhaps even the puter nerds may not have had enough understanding of what they are modeling either. I fear i haven't explained this well enough but one could write books on this.
|
|
triz
Administrator
McLaren Fan
Posts: 500
|
Post by triz on Jan 5, 2011 16:51:58 GMT 2
rFactor is not a piece of crap but there is a problem in the feel that is shared by LFS, GTR etc. when you turn the steering wheel you change the angle of the steered wheels and this starts the tire interacting with the pavement which generates a force to turn the car and that force produced requires energy which 1. slows the car by converting velocity into drag, 2. a centering force in the steering because the tires wants to straighten themselves. I believe isi physics took a shortcut and instead of generating these forces in the tire model they went directly and much more simply computing wise to the rotation of the car to generate the drag. this causes a more linear and instaneous drag when turning and also the drag stays until the car is completely straightened. with a "tire" model of this effect it is less linear, and the driver can try to find that sweet spot where cornering is maxed and drag is minimized by feel. Don't expect that in arcade games and in my opinion is the biggest weakness in the isi engine. i think heat handles this better and in the tire model. of course they physics designers all have to make simplification just because the interactions are very complex in real time and constantly changing. Perhaps even the puter nerds may not have had enough understanding of what they are modeling either. I fear i haven't explained this well enough but one could write books on this. Indeed multiple books i think The maths behind the tiremodel I couldnt understand myself. The problem with todays sims is mostly the pressure to deliver a sim that feels liek the real thing and looks like the ral thing too. Maybe thats why isi delivered rFactor the way it is. Thats why LFS is an ongoing project, still unfinished... and why F1 2010, GRID, GRID 2 is arcade. Market for a real sim is limited. The easy money is still in creating car games with pretty pics
|
|
|
Post by DaveO on Jan 5, 2011 17:00:45 GMT 2
I fear i haven't explained this well enough but one could write books on this. hehehe, I've been teasing you for months to write a book about physics. But I must say, I've learned a lot from you in our chats! ;D
|
|
|
Post by Cholerix on Jan 5, 2011 17:48:32 GMT 2
Market for a real sim is limited. Indeed no more than perhaps 50.000 users worldwide (some more or less) , if you take iRacing user numbers for a base to start from Titles like GT5 aim for billions of users But ! there's still the PRO sim market. And there's a lot of money in this as online practice has become a cost saving tool for professional racing teams - and an advantage as well. Companies like BRD have switched from consumer market to pro market. And perhaps that's where really in coming years the development will come from
|
|
triz
Administrator
McLaren Fan
Posts: 500
|
Post by triz on Jan 5, 2011 17:53:44 GMT 2
Market for a real sim is limited. Indeed no more than perhaps 50.000 users worldwide (some more or less) , if you take iRacing user numbers for a base to start from Titles like GT5 aim for billions of users But ! there's still the PRO sim market. And there's a lot of money in this as online practice has become a cost saving tool for professional racing teams - and an advantage as well. Companies like BRD have switched from consumer market to pro market. And perhaps that's where really in coming years the development will come from I surely hope so Maybe we could lift with that as well. For now HEAT and LFS serve us fine (and rFactor in some extend) but a real "sequel'as to say is not really there. I guess we'll just wait and hope for one some day.
|
|
|
Post by trucky on Jan 5, 2011 18:53:22 GMT 2
There is a sim that comes close to the real thing. At least if you take a look when it is developed. The sim is called GPL and it wasn't a big succes in 1998 because people found it was way to hard to drive the cars fast. Even those persons who drove the old F1 cars(for example Jacky Stewart) found it quit hard(if i remember correctly he said that the real cars are easier to drive then those in the sim). But for some reason it only worked for those classic cars,Nascar 2k3,Iracing and others based on it didn't do that well in trying to create the real feeling(i call it this way because i don't believe you can make a sim that has real physics). It also has a good community and there are still new mods coming. The list of completed mods with own physics are F1 1965,F1 1966,F1 1969,Stratos mod,Sportscars 1967,Thundercars. There are also carsets that use physics from the mods listed above,Tasman series 1964-65-66-67-68,F2 1967,F1 1968,... . And there are mods coming sooner or later,Can am series,sportscars 1964,F2 1967,whole new F1 1969 and 1967,pre war F1,... . And over 500 classic tracks. After NHeat(the best at this moment,i think )i enjoy this one the most.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2011 22:54:28 GMT 2
rFactor. The graphics are cheasy, and even on lowest settings made frame lags. (Havent tried on new pc) The physics are so so, not like LFS or Nheat and feel arcadey even with all assists off. The userinterfaces etc is unorganized and difficult to use. Whatelese
|
|
|
Post by ucrdoh on Jan 6, 2011 0:07:44 GMT 2
what's funny about what you said about GT5, is that a reviewer said it was TOO much sim....
I've played f12010, I knew what I was getting into when i got it, i wanted an F1 game, fun, but it seems somewhat ported over from console because of how the interface is setup, which is annoying. I haven't tried it since I got my wheel though.
Haven't played Rfactor, might in the future, but I have a lot going on, so I'll stick with heat.
|
|