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Post by DaveO on Jul 8, 2012 3:04:25 GMT 2
Hey Guys...
I've been informed that for Nascar Heat standings, if you have a separate points standings for racing different mods, like we do, but also have an overall points standings, that the official Heat stats that is held on Heatfinder will not recognize having champions of different mods, or series when you also have an overall points standings.
This is my idea if all admins, and active members of SpeedSims agree. I would like to do away with the overall points standings, and have each mod we are racing in the multi mod series stand as there own individual series so each winner of each mod is rewarded as a champion in the heat community stats record. We have different individuals leading in the points, in each mod, and when all is said and done. I would like to see these individuals getting the recognition they deserve!! ;D
So if everyone agrees I would like to take down the overall points standings. Just chime in yes you would like to get rid of the "overall points standings" and treat each mod as there own series. or chime in saying "no leave as is".
Thanks,
Dave
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triz
Administrator 
McLaren Fan
Posts: 500
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Post by triz on Jul 8, 2012 9:12:07 GMT 2
Hey Guys... I've been informed that for Nascar Heat standings, if you have a separate points standings for racing different mods, like we do, but also have an overall points standings, that the official Heat stats that is held on Heatfinder will not recognize having champions of different mods, or series when you also have an overall points standings. This is my idea if all admins, and active members of SpeedSims agree. I would like to do away with the overall points standings, and have each mod we are racing in the multi mod series stand as there own individual series so each winner of each mod is rewarded as a champion in the heat community stats record. We have different individuals leading in the points, in each mod, and when all is said and done. I would like to see these individuals getting the recognition they deserve!! ;D So if everyone agrees I would like to take down the overall points standings. Just chime in yes you would like to get rid of the "overall points standings" and treat each mod as there own series. or chime in saying "no leave as is". Thanks, Dave Hey Dave, Hmmm, well if the HEAT statistics will only count the overall points then in that case leave it out for the record. Ofcourse personally for me it's not that good  The separate points for the the mods would be indeed better I guess in case we want these be put into the stats. We got different people leading so yup. Sound fine to me. cheers, Triz |
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humty
Administrator
The only true wishdom is knowing you know nothing
Posts: 538
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Post by humty on Jul 8, 2012 14:46:13 GMT 2
Hey Guys... I've been informed that for Nascar Heat standings, if you have a separate points standings for racing different mods, like we do, but also have an overall points standings, that the official Heat stats that is held on Heatfinder will not recognize having champions of different mods, or series when you also have an overall points standings. This is my idea if all admins, and active members of SpeedSims agree. I would like to do away with the overall points standings, and have each mod we are racing in the multi mod series stand as there own individual series so each winner of each mod is rewarded as a champion in the heat community stats record. We have different individuals leading in the points, in each mod, and when all is said and done. I would like to see these individuals getting the recognition they deserve!! ;D So if everyone agrees I would like to take down the overall points standings. Just chime in yes you would like to get rid of the "overall points standings" and treat each mod as there own series. or chime in saying "no leave as is". Thanks, Dave Hey Dave, Hmmm, well if the HEAT statistics will only count the overall points then in that case leave it out for the record. Ofcourse personally for me it's not that good The separate points for the the mods would be indeed better I guess in case we want these be put into the stats. We got different people leading so yup. Sound fine to me. cheers, Triz I agree with Triz. And looking at the standings for the mods everything still can happen. SCP with only 9 points difference between the top 3, and the Group C with only 14 points between the top 4. There for we take the overall results out for the official stats, maybe we could keep it for Speedsims stats only but that would be another discussion point. Chris |
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Post by Blaxman on Jul 9, 2012 16:07:17 GMT 2
In my opnion, the reward system is the league's prerogative. If the league admins decide to have separate mods and overall standings, that means something to them and should be, for the sake of accuracy of facts, respected by anyone wanting to collect statistics. I dont think we should do things based on how HeatFinder see them, but how we want them to be seen by our members and competitors. No one, but the league itself is entitled to determine what is valid or not!! What really matters is how the sanctioning league designed their competition. Who must effectivelly say who (and for what) is the champion of the competition (and its various divisions) is the league itself, not the stats collector. I see no reason why would anyone dismiss the way a league rewards their competitors.  . |
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Post by DaveO on Jul 10, 2012 3:49:32 GMT 2
No one, but the league itself is entitled to determine what is valid or not!! What really matters is how the sanctioning league designed their competition. Who must effectively say who (and for what) is the champion of the competition (and its various divisions) is the league itself, not the stats collector. . Mauro, your absolutely correct. The leagues do all the work and they should be the ones who determine what is valid and what is not valid in creating series for there members, and the Heatfinder stats should follow league's rewarding system. Both of our series the Multi Mod and NHPS were both designed to have more then one champion.. We even advertised that for when we advertised for our Saturdays and Tuesday series. For an example see below:  HeatFinder should conform to the series standings..... if they truly want things to be as accurate as possible. What if we had a Track Champions(and multiple ones at that for various tracks) , State Champions (and multiple ones at that for various states) and a National Champion? If the league decide to have sub-divisions, that's for a reason. And the reason is exactly to have more people being recognized for the specific talents they have on certain mods, track types, etc... So to drive home my point. All of us back in 2011 designed both of series that we race on Saturdays and on Tuesday evenings to be more diversified and to also have more then one champion, NOT JUST ONE OVERALL CHAMPION. That is NOT going to happen here at SpeedSims. I'm sorry guys, but you guys just collect the stats, you should really abide how the leagues run and sanction there own series. |
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Post by raybee1970 on Jul 10, 2012 5:28:05 GMT 2
Gotta give a big AMEN to that guys. If you are going to be a statistician, you need to be accurate with stats... whether that be one stat, or 10 stats or 2000 stats. The leagues and their various champions, no matter how many champs they have, or how many series they run should ALL get the credit they deserve. If a league has a Summer Champ and a Winter Champ... they both deserve the credit. If a league has a road course champ, a plate track champ, a speedway champ, a short track champ and an overall champ... it should be shown that exact way if they are to be creditable with stat keeping. Matt Kenseth only one one race when he won the Sprint Cup title in 2003. Does that make his one win any less satisfying? Does it make him a poor champion because he only won a single race? How would Benny Parsons feel back in 1973 when he too won the championship and only won 1 race? Or Ned Jarrett in 1961, or Bill Rexford in 1950? Championships is what these guys race for.... they don't care if its a track championship or a national championship. Both mean just as much to the person who wins them. If I ran in a league, and we ran Bowman Gray a few times, I'd actually be more thrilled with winning my local track championship than I would the overall... because that meant I was good enough at my home track to be a champion. A national title would just be icing on the cake. So yeah... HeatFinder needs to keep track of it ALL, if they are going to go by championships... not just pick and choose. That isn't how stats are compiled in sports. |
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Post by DusterLag on Jul 10, 2012 5:30:31 GMT 2
Look guys, your making this way too difficult. The Heat Community Stats is something that Donaldson has done for fun and for us to learn from, nothing else. HeatFinder has gotten behind his project for FUN. I happen to agree with the general trend here, no league should change the way they do things to conform to anything or anyone else. I certainly wouldn't do it & Donaldson didn't tell you to. The same goes for Donaldson, he has decided to go one way and I happen to agree with him based on another scenario that occurred similar to this with one of my own leagues, should we make him change because SpeedSims says so? No. So why are we changing the way we do things and creating all this havoc and anger at HeatFinder/Donaldson? I'm getting so many e-mails/chats from people complaining about this its outrageous and EVERYONE IS RIGHT so how can you make anyone happy?? You can't. The Heat Community Stats are done for FUN and general knowledge ONLY.  Lets not let this get out of hand. No one group is asking any other group to change anything. SpeedSims felt they wanted to poll the league's driver to possibly make this change on their own in order to cause an affect on the way Donaldson compiles the Heat Community Stats. This is not HeatFinder or Donaldson trying to change SpeedSims nor is it SpeedSims trying to change HeatFinder or Donaldson.Man do I HATE Drama... Sigh |
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Post by DusterLag on Jul 10, 2012 5:35:59 GMT 2
Gotta give a big AMEN to that guys. If you are going to be a statistician, you need to be accurate with stats... whether that be one stat, or 10 stats or 2000 stats. The leagues and their various champions, no matter how many champs they have, or how many series they run should ALL get the credit they deserve. If a league has a Summer Champ and a Winter Champ... they both deserve the credit. If a league has a road course champ, a plate track champ, a speedway champ, a short track champ and an overall champ... it should be shown that exact way if they are to be creditable with stat keeping. Matt Kenseth only one one race when he won the Sprint Cup title in 2003. Does that make his one win any less satisfying? Does it make him a poor champion because he only won a single race? How would Benny Parsons feel back in 1973 when he too won the championship and only won 1 race? Or Ned Jarrett in 1961, or Bill Rexford in 1950? Championships is what these guys race for.... they don't care if its a track championship or a national championship. Both mean just as much to the person who wins them. If I ran in a league, and we ran Bowman Gray a few times, I'd actually be more thrilled with winning my local track championship than I would the overall... because that meant I was good enough at my home track to be a champion. A national title would just be icing on the cake. So yeah... HeatFinder needs to keep track of it ALL, if they are going to go by championships... not just pick and choose. That isn't how stats are compiled in sports. Although as I said I understand counting secondary championships. There is a difference here, one person can win 3 championships for running the same races during the same series. Also although its not the case here someone could start a league and rig multiple championships for the same set of races that could leave them with a never ending number of championships for the same set of races. Donaldson has to keep all of this in mind when making decisions such as this one I assisted him with last year, long before this SpeedSims series. |
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Post by DusterLag on Jul 10, 2012 5:37:57 GMT 2
HeatFinder should conform to the series standings..... Thats a bit unfair and you know why.  |
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Post by DaveO on Jul 10, 2012 5:40:59 GMT 2
So why are we changing the way we do things and creating all this havoc and anger at HeatFinder/Donaldson? I'm getting so many e-mails/chats from people complaining about this its outrageous. There is no havoc or anger. Your getting so many e-mails/chats.. Why didn't they post how they felt here? That's the reason for this thread to begin with... |
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Post by raybee1970 on Jul 10, 2012 5:43:20 GMT 2
Although as I said I understand counting secondary championships. There is a difference here, one person can win 3 championships for running the same races during the same series. Also although its not the case here someone could start a league and rig multiple championships for the same set of races that could leave them with a never ending number of championships for the same set of races. Donaldson has to keep all of this in mind when making decisions such as this one I assisted him with last year, long before this SpeedSims series. So what? That means that person was damn good enough to win 3 championships. What's next.... you take 4 leagues from here and combine all that into one single Speedsims Champion for overall? That is bullshit and you know it. It sounds to me like you are making shit up as you go. |
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Post by DaveO on Jul 10, 2012 5:48:09 GMT 2
Okay, I get it, I'm to damn fast.. But as you can tell in our multi mod series there are more then ONE guy winning a series.
You guys at HF do what you want on how you do things. I sure as hell can still post for example, Triz, Spike or whoever wins one of the the series as a champion here..
I'll even take myself off the damn track for the rest of the series.. ;D
This thread is done.. I'm not trying to cause problems in the community. We started our series this way, and will continue it that way...
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humty
Administrator
The only true wishdom is knowing you know nothing
Posts: 538
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Post by humty on Jul 10, 2012 20:48:23 GMT 2
now i must agree on Blaxman and Raybee's point that people who win a championship should get acknowledged for that,
If it isn't on the HF stats, we still have our own archive where that can be stored for recognition.
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triz
Administrator
McLaren Fan
Posts: 500
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Post by triz on Jul 10, 2012 21:46:37 GMT 2
I know this is also a discussion on a locked threat, but wanted to have a small addition to this anyway.
That whole conversation went wrong on the part with transcripts. We don't need that sort of Bullshit of people logging what other people say and threaten to make that public. Is non-sense. End of story. Plain and simple. It cancels out the point of the discussion.
Secondly we're all here to race and have fun. Some people around here make mods that are gold and a lot of people race here to have great fun which is just as important. That's what we are here for. That's what I am here for.
The stats thing is a fun thing to know. But they are just numbers. For me a championship is a championship. Large or small.
Numbers should just be numbers. But should be reality! So if someone wins a championship, thats 1 championship. If that championship is consisting of 5 others... so be it. 6 championships. That's the way the series championship will be defined before it starts. There should be no selective numbering in this. Before one takes part in that championship, the league admins define how and where points are scored. That's it.
Remember we do this for fun. Not for the numbers... If there are people around who are around just for the numbers... I am sorry, they missed the point of racing here then. They take themselves to seriously. But again when we are number crunching they should be accurate and credit to where its due. What else is the use if the numbers are incorrect? It makes them useless. No point then in checking it out if they are wrong. That would be a waste of effort and server space no?
Now... I said that I have no problem if the SpeedSims Multimod Series championship is going to be "defined" point wise without the overall standings. If some outside force is not counting that... fine... that's their problem. I agree with Chris, we can still have our own standings here if they don't want to count the overall ones. All we know then is they are not accurate. Wanna be a statician? Gotta get all the data. Leave nothing out... Else it becomes politics... and the last thing we need here is politics.
cheers,
Triz
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