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Post by jaremko on Oct 9, 2008 23:59:18 GMT 2
Ok good question here. I know heat has a limit of polygons or vertex. How much are they? It's something about 5000 but what?vertex,poly's?
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Post by Administrator on Oct 10, 2008 9:42:56 GMT 2
Assuming what's you're up for is about limit on car meshes ?
Yes, probably there is some limit, but that won't be one on the poligons on a car mesh, but rather the total amount of poligons that NHeat has to process on loading a race. And I'd expect that limit rather to be PCU driven than something hardcoded in Heat - opposite to the texture file limit.
The more poligons you're using on a car, the more stress Heat will have on processing the car. Same for any other sim, btw. Thus some modders rather run low poly cars and put the detail into the textures (N2k3 GTP mod for example).
When checking the number of poligons on your car mesh, take into consideration that in the game the car will have 4 tires added - and that means adding another 1600-3000 poligons ! Thus it's generally a good idea to put some limit on the amount of poligons on the mesh - a limit that includes tires. For SGTS mod, that would be at about 7000 Poligons each car (4200 on the car body). For groupC mod, it had been 5000 (3000 for car body).
I think ~4000 for car body mesh is quite a lot, when carefully set. It's important not to waste poligon "bandwidth" on detail that isn't even visible in the game at all - such as cockpit inside details in high1 (opposite to high0 !). So on ANY detail on the car mesh, check if it's really visible. Even smoothness will only be notable to a certain degree - on HMC mod for example the driver's helmet is very high poly - without use. You could subsitute it by a lower poly helmet and save almost 1000 poligons on the car mesh - without someone even noticing
You should set a limit on what max amount of poligons your car mesh should have. Then first work on your car mesh without having that limit in mind. Once you're happy with the car body mesh, try going for reworking it to get to the limit
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Post by jaremko on Oct 10, 2008 18:45:54 GMT 2
Thanks that will help a lot. Well i have here a very high poly car. But everything is on it(helmet,tyres,driver,...). It's a beautifully model,has about 15000p's and it's not mine,still waiting for permission. But the good news is that i can easily reduce poly's without loosing a good looking car. About 5000p's should be possible in high1 with that car. Let's hope i get that permission.
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Post by Administrator on Oct 10, 2008 19:12:13 GMT 2
15000 polys sounds life some NFS model.. these most often have everything in 3D, even the manufactorer's emblem.
Some advice on 3rd party models: Don't take for granted these are correct, just because they look great. I'd suggest to check in zmod with blueprint for background if the model matches the real car, especially when it comes to dimensions - NFS models in particular very often are rather "lookalikes" than close to the real stuff
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Post by jaremko on Oct 10, 2008 20:10:09 GMT 2
No it isn't a NFS modell. What is NFS ;D. That modell came from a genius,artist,... well everything that makes him look good. Have taken a good look at his models and well now i'm a fan. When i get permission then you will see it with your own eyes. But what kind of guy makes logos in 3d for a game,waste of time and PCU if you ask me. Well maybe i'm to old for those new kids on the block(s... those are from the 90's,does anyone know a new boys group that i can blame because now i'm looking really old). ;D
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Post by Administrator on Oct 11, 2008 8:22:49 GMT 2
But what kind of guy makes logos in 3d for a game,waste of time and PCU if you ask me. I got the feeling there's some tool(s) out there to get some quick 3D modeling done for NFS. And a lot of kids using these. Would explain the high number of NFS car models and the way a lot them look like
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Post by bdford on Oct 11, 2008 8:43:03 GMT 2
I personally aim for around 4000-4500 max polys for the High1 model. A model with 15,000 is NOT intended for gaming use, in any game, that's way too many. Such models are created as stand alone 3d artwork, there's people that get a kick out of making 3d models and then rendering them in scenes to look like cgi from the movies - hey, to each his own. I have often thought of using some of the commercially available models but every time, I find them to be inaccurate, or excessively high polys, or rather poorly made. As Cholerix says, don't assume its accurate just because it looks okay. I end up making my models, its simply easier than reworking someone else's, but I have had a LOT of experience... I must have made over 50 cars and more than a hundred flight sim aircraft over the years. Not to mention trains, buildings, ships, spacecraft...etc etc and yada...
Bubba
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Post by Administrator on Oct 11, 2008 9:14:07 GMT 2
I must have made over 50 cars and more than a hundred flight sim aircraft over the years. Not to mention trains, buildings, ships, spacecraft...etc etc and yada... Bubba Well that explains the incredible speed you seem to have in modeling I've yet only made the models that run around in NHeat... 9 GroupC + 6 GTs (2 of those derivations) = 13 cars yet. 14th in the making. Still feel like being an apprentice who some day gets caught up by master, having made it all wrong ;D
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Post by jaremko on Oct 11, 2008 10:26:54 GMT 2
Well the models are correct,just some inches with the wheelbase but that's not a problem.It's about the same inaccuracy as with other Heat mods with a good reputation(just a couple of inches).I don't think that you could make it closer to the real one but again it isn't nessecary at all,nobody would notice. Anyway if you wanna make it really correct then you need the real one at home and messure everything,even bleuprints at the net and photo's can't bring you that accuracy. After some work on the modell i got to 6394 poly's,and you can't see any difference to the 15000p car. But i can change more and 4500p's will be the end result in high1. Look's great so far. ;D
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Post by Administrator on Oct 11, 2008 10:39:54 GMT 2
Screenie ? *wink* *wink*
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Post by bdford on Oct 13, 2008 8:29:29 GMT 2
places to strip the remaining polys from - the underside. The idea of the game is to keep the car right side up so you dont see underneath. Build a really simple undertray - ditto goes for under the wheel arches. Next, the interior. You want a nice interior for the cockpit High[0] view but for outside, you really cant see much. Ditch anything but a basic dash and basic seat, drivers should be very basic as well, except the helmet. Flat disks for steering wheels, and you can either massively simplify or remove altogether, the inside roof and make very simple cockpit tubs. Go LOOK at pictures of race cars and notice just how much of the inside you CANT see from average race viewing distance.
Bubba
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Post by bdford on Oct 13, 2008 8:33:34 GMT 2
Still feel like being an apprentice who some day gets caught up by master, having made it all wrong ;D You're no apprentice, my man, your stuff is GOOD! Damned good! Consider yourself master modeler, first class. I got started with CAD back when it was all green screen monitors and wireframe. My first model was an F-86 Sabre jet fighter. I liked the deep end of the pool :-) Had I known then I would have made a career from 3D modeling, back when you could get in the ground floor. Bubba
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Post by sucahyo on Oct 14, 2008 4:11:30 GMT 2
From what I experience. The limit is the number of vertex per object/texture. But for heat I forgot how many. If you crash when opening one car (test race). Try splitting the object in zmodeler into two object or two texture. The total number of car vertex may limit the number of car in a race. If you want to have 43 cars, you should carefully limit your car vertex number. You need to limit the number of maximum vertex/poly rendered at one screen. If the car have damage, I think we can have bigger poly count. As an example, here is 14000 vertex/21000 poly car splitted into two object. Race with 8 driver is possible, but still crash after race. You can try using car with higher polygon with very aggresive vertex merging / unification. Just remember that vertex on different object/texture/surface type, will not joined together. I think it is possible to use 44 cars 15000 poly model with some trick: - use single texture and single surface type (all shine) saved as single object (carname[0]). The number of .tex reference inside .mod file have to be only one reference. After vertex unification it should have about 10000 vertex. - Using LOD, any car more than 60 feet from camera will be using simple box or model with less poly (maybe as high2.mod). - Using LOD, any wheel more than 60 feet from camera will be using simple plane model (maybe as wheel_2.mod? or 3?). I think we should never made the wheel dissapear.
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Post by Administrator on Oct 14, 2008 9:13:15 GMT 2
mmmh... that pit wall to the left looks unkownn to me ... Some new track ?
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Post by ksheppard on Nov 9, 2008 2:48:30 GMT 2
lol I'm drawing a blank - been a bit since I've done anything in max 1 face = 1 polygon. 1 face has 2 triang's? If Kevin has a model with: Verts: 282641 Faces: 357437 How many polys does he have?
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