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Post by Harding Jr on Oct 3, 2009 23:40:04 GMT 2
main problem on track is if you go above 75 mph yur car gets loose in some turns suddenly and you lose control. no im not spinning out harding... See my car is the opposite (using Birmingham as a base), really lose going slow, and if your farting around it doesn't do too much for me, I have to push it to its max and throw it about and it feels as if its on rails, problem with my setup at the moment is I'm chewing threw the tires to fast. But it is a very stable setup. Dave's setup is a very loose setup and is an awesome setup if you can put it with pin point accuracy in the same position every lap, but unfortunately for human drivers like you and I its very difficult. To make Dave's setup a bit easier increase the front sway bar up to at least 1/4, anymore may start causing understeer but will make the car stable from the front, which is what ya want if it feels the rear end wants to overtake the front more often than not. I still haven't been able to commit 100% in one lap and my setup still isn't finished, best lap to date 1.41.46. I have probably only turned out about 70laps so far though. Should be an awesome race  . |
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Post by Mustangman on Oct 4, 2009 1:58:33 GMT 2
main problem on track is if you go above 75 mph yur car gets loose in some turns suddenly and you lose control. no im not spinning out harding... See my car is the opposite (using Birmingham as a base), really lose going slow, and if your farting around it doesn't do too much for me, I have to push it to its max and throw it about and it feels as if its on rails, problem with my setup at the moment is I'm chewing threw the tires to fast. But it is a very stable setup. Dave's setup is a very loose setup and is an awesome setup if you can put it with pin point accuracy in the same position every lap, but unfortunately for human drivers like you and I its very difficult. To make Dave's setup a bit easier increase the front sway bar up to at least 1/4, anymore may start causing understeer but will make the car stable from the front, which is what ya want if it feels the rear end wants to overtake the front more often than not. I still haven't been able to commit 100% in one lap and my setup still isn't finished, best lap to date 1.41.46. I have probably only turned out about 70laps so far though. Should be an awesome race . will give it a go |
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Post by Mustangman on Oct 4, 2009 21:23:41 GMT 2
ill upload patchs #26 bmxs #25 and oscars #16 customs asap
;D
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Post by Muckle-55nz on Oct 5, 2009 3:22:44 GMT 2
Yeah ill try to be there ill take the Beyer/Taylor #5 thanks
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Post by spindoctor on Oct 7, 2009 22:29:42 GMT 2
I'm still having headaches with the rear end trying to come around any time I let off the gas or down shift. It seems counter-intuitive... as if there are 2 cars under 1 body-the front end drives one way and the rear another, especially under part throttle. Steering can be fairly good under power. But when you try to slow for a turn or traffic it is a question of guessing which side the rear break away to and how far. I have tried adding front end weight up to the max and increasing rear rebound, but it makes no useful difference while increasing braking distance and under-steer. The only thing so far seems to be to use very tall gearing to reduce the influence of torque at the rear axle as it loads up when you slow down- which really impacts acceleration out of the turns.
I wonder if the chassis works better on Ovals than Road Courses where direction changes and braking are more gradual.
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Post by DaveO on Oct 7, 2009 22:35:55 GMT 2
I'm still having headaches with the rear end trying to come around any time I let off the gas or down shift. It seems counter-intuitive... as if there are 2 cars under 1 body-the front end drives one way and the rear another, especially under part throttle. Steering can be fairly good under power. But when you try to slow for a turn or traffic it is a question of guessing which side the rear break away to and how far. I have tried adding front end weight up to the max and increasing rear rebound, but it makes no useful difference while increasing braking distance and under-steer. The only thing so far seems to be to use very tall gearing to reduce the influence of torque at the rear axle as it loads up when you slow down- which really impacts acceleration out of the turns. I wonder if the chassis works better on Ovals than Road Courses where direction changes and braking are more gradual. Try out this setup. speedsims.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=setups&action=display&thread=656It's a very stable setup, a little on the tight side, I've had a couple of guys test it out, and they were able to drive it only making some minor adjustments to it. |
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Post by raybee1970 on Oct 8, 2009 3:04:11 GMT 2
I'm still having headaches with the rear end trying to come around any time I let off the gas or down shift. It seems counter-intuitive... as if there are 2 cars under 1 body-the front end drives one way and the rear another, especially under part throttle. Steering can be fairly good under power. But when you try to slow for a turn or traffic it is a question of guessing which side the rear break away to and how far. I have tried adding front end weight up to the max and increasing rear rebound, but it makes no useful difference while increasing braking distance and under-steer. The only thing so far seems to be to use very tall gearing to reduce the influence of torque at the rear axle as it loads up when you slow down- which really impacts acceleration out of the turns. I wonder if the chassis works better on Ovals than Road Courses where direction changes and braking are more gradual. Jeff, In real life, the rear ends on these cars are extremely twitchy. I remember Jeff Gordon talking about how he underestimated the cars when he first drove them, and he ended up putting it in the wall because of it. Seems like Jimmie Johnson and Tony Stewart also had some incidents with the back end coming around on them too, when they least expected it. And if the back end is loose, wouldn't it make more sense to "reduce" front weight....adding more on the rear, to keep the rear "on the ground" so to speak? I've always been of the impression that if a car is tail happy, then the rear tires are wanting to loose grip and aren't "connecting" to the ground like they should... so putting weight on the back would help that?? Think of a pickup truck in the snow. If you have nothing in the back...you'll lose traction and slip and slide all over the place. You add weight back there, and you can then get around a lot better in the snow. Might be worth a shot anyways. |
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Post by Harding Jr on Oct 8, 2009 3:56:26 GMT 2
There's two ways of looking at that Raybee at least for me anyway. In cars like these regardless how much weight you have hovered above that rear axle when you put your foot down the wheels are going to spin. But with the car being tail happy, it depends how it gets to that point. The problem could lie in the front end not getting enough grip and therefor cant point the car in the correct position easily. The more weight you have to the front the more grip you are going to get out of the front of the car and the more direct the car will feel. As soon as the weight gets moved back the car starts becoming more nervous but has more turning capability. With that spindocter, have you got your game running on the right setup. ie Hardcore, 2X wearfactor etc  |
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Post by spindoctor on Oct 8, 2009 3:58:15 GMT 2
Thanks guys. Twitchy,eh? Hadn't heard that about them. They don't seem twitchy when they run at VIR either up or down the esses. The thing I am seeing is like when you have too much rear brake bias and the rear turns out before the front turns in. no amount of counter-steer works. The problem appears under braking or downshifting before a turn and feels like someone just nudged you out of the turn from behind. The idea about adding weight to the front is to resist rotation around the CG-momentum being what it is. Which seems to help. Typically a car that rotates this easy has too much front dive/caster or maybe the rear Diff is too tight and locks up too soon under deceleration which shifts the weight forwards off the rear axle rather abruptly _momentum being what it is- again (tall gearing helps there), or it could be the rear suspension geometry jacking while trying to help the rear rotate in a turn... kinda like bump steer. Wish we could adjust the rear camber and toe to fine tune it. Ill try this setup and practice more Hardcore is the only way to run. edit: 1:44.64 best so far but feels slower |
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Post by Administrator on Oct 8, 2009 9:53:08 GMT 2
I've always been of the impression that if a car is tail happy, then the rear tires are wanting to loose grip and aren't "connecting" to the ground like they should... so putting weight on the back would help that?? Kind of - it helps at acceleratng out of a turn to keep the rear behind. But it will make the rear end try to get in front at braking for a turn. |
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Post by Harding Jr on Oct 8, 2009 12:16:53 GMT 2
From what your describing you may be downshifting too soon. If you just brake, it will still slow the car enough for the corner. But try downshifting once the revs have died down a wee bit more. or just quickly changing down into the preferred gear before you start to accelerate through the corner. But if when your applying the brake it starts feeling nervous I'm out of ideas. Maybe try do a small weave when your braking if it doesn't like braking in a straight line. For the record a 1:44 is quite a good lap |
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Post by spindoctor on Oct 8, 2009 15:29:58 GMT 2
Thanks Harding, My Ai cars are running 140-141 laps so I feel a bit slow right now. I suspect my race laps would be about 2- 3 sec slower. When I've run a series of laps its hard to hit the same line up that first hill and through the long right-left sequence at the bottom of the following hill. If you don't hit the entry correctly on the first turn the next 2 or 3 are off as well. I used to brake way too early. In online races I'd collect whoever was just behind me and get yelled at for blocking. Guess I could use something like rookie stripes on the bumper to warn following cars |
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Post by Harding Jr on Oct 9, 2009 7:12:48 GMT 2
Thanks Harding, My Ai cars are running 140-141 laps so I feel a bit slow right now. I suspect my race laps would be about 2- 3 sec slower. When I've run a series of laps its hard to hit the same line up that first hill and through the long right-left sequence at the bottom of the following hill. If you don't hit the entry correctly on the first turn the next 2 or 3 are off as well. I used to brake way too early. In online races I'd collect whoever was just behind me and get yelled at for blocking. Guess I could use something like rookie stripes on the bumper to warn following cars Personally I don't run with ai cars when I practice. When I practice I race alone in the "test" option out of garage, I have the whole track to myself. No one can get in my way I can try different lines into different corners every lap without having to fight for that spot on the track with any other car. As for the rookie stripes, you wont need them, everyone racing here at Speedsims races heads up. Saying that you brake early as well most people will read now and make themselves a mental note. This is a fun race so if a crash does occur its no biggy, just take it as a learning curb and improve for the next event. If your still needing a little bit of help setup wise I advise jumping onto Speedsims Ventrilo an hour or so before race time so you can get the car worked out. If you want I'd gladly set the alarm a little earlier to get up and help you, or anyone else having any problems for that matter, just say the word . |
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Post by Mustangman on Oct 9, 2009 13:52:42 GMT 2
oscars car Attachments:
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Post by Mustangman on Oct 9, 2009 13:53:49 GMT 2
Bmxs car Attachments:
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